This is a special edition of The Recombobulation Area.
Gary Witt, president and CEO of the Pabst Theater Group, sits down with Dan Shafer for an extended conversation, backstage at the Riverside Theater for an exclusive video podcast.
Gary Witt is one of the most interesting people in Milwaukee to talk to. He always speaks his mind, he always has a lot to say, and he brings a perspective that exists outside of the typical circular conversations this city seems to be constantly having.
For the last 24 years, Witt has led what’s now called the Pabst Theater Group, helping oversee the transformation of the Pabst Theater, Riverside Theater, Turner Hall Ballroom, and so much more. He’s been one of the central figures in the revitalization of downtown Milwaukee in the 21st century, and for someone in his position, he is remarkably unguarded about what he has to say about … pretty much everything.
“I’m not here to keep things status quo,” he said. “I’m here to talk about how to make things better.”
Witt has been in the news recently because of his staunch opposition to a proposal that’s been out there to potentially tear down the Miller High Life Theatre to build a new convention center hotel. That concept was one of the conclusions drawn in a recent report from Hunden Partners put forth by the Wisconsin Center District. The Pabst Theater Group took over much of the booking and operations of the Miller High Life Theater in 2022, so perhaps some of that opposition is to be expected, but this goes well beyond that. Witt accuses Wisconsin Center District CEO Marty Brooks of having his “thumb on the scale” with this report, questioning the very validity of the “study,” saying it had a preferred outcome all along.
“Stop calling it a study. It was Marty Brooks’ request to get a hotel built because his ego is so large that in the final two years of his contract, instead of the board giving him the guidance of taking his final two years and hiring someone to take the baton from him and work toward the future, Marty has been entrusted with the next 20-30 years of $300-400 million of debt that hotel will cost us, that, long after he’s gone and sunning his buns in Florida, we’ll be stuck with taxpayer debt for building a hotel that will likely kill the hotel industry in the city.”
While we talk at length about this discussion around this concept of a plan and why it’s misguided — “We can’t afford errors in Milwaukee because we have too many things wrong,” he said — this conversation is about much more than Witt’s criticism of this particular proposal, or the High Life Theatre in general, or even the future of downtown at large.
“I’m tired of development downtown. Anyone will tell you we’re losing population in the city of Milwaukee, and we’re not losing population from a bunch of white people who are moving into The Couture, we are losing population from people in the poverty level who cannot find living in this city sustainable. I have distrust and disdain for our leaders of today who don’t take on the “p word” — poverty — and look at real world solutions.”
Along with talking about what’s happening with the Miller High Life Theatre, we talked about the bigger picture, and whether downtown Milwaukee has arrived at another inflection point. We also talked about the new venue downtown, Landmark Credit Union Live. We talked about independent music venues and helping form NIVA (National Independent Venue Association), dealing with Ticketmaster and Live Nation, the convention and hotel business in Milwaukee, the history of leadership at the Wisconsin Center District, and a whole lot more.
As the conversation unfolded, we also talked about things like regional transportation and its impact on the metro area’s economy, challenges with Mitchell Airport (other than the actual Recombobulation Area, of course), and Milwaukee leaders not focusing enough on fighting poverty.
Witt also had a few especially critical things to say about philanthropy from this generation of Milwaukee’s business leaders — “Get the fuck out there and start writing some fucking history and stop putting your name on buildings and shit,” he said — so be sure to stick around until the end of the podcast for that.
Witt has a whole lot to say about a great many things — takes on takes on takes, truly. But he is someone who cares deeply about Milwaukee and this city’s future, and his unique perspective is always genuinely thought-provoking.
I’ve had these longer conversations with Gary a number of times, and they always go in some unpredictable directions, and this is no different. So please enjoy this conversation with Gary Witt.
Let’s recombobulate.
Find the following topics throughout the podcast (times approximate):
2:00: Conversation begins: “I’m not here to keep things status quo. I’m here to talk about how to make things better.”
5:00: On the Wisconsin Center District-commissioned study and Witt’s opposition to the concept of tearing down the High Life Theatre for a convention center hotel
19:00: Digging in to the Hunden Partners report and the history of leadership at the Wisconsin Center District
33:00: Why the Miller High Life Theatre is unique in Milwaukee and Wisconsin’s live event landscape
44:00: Is downtown Milwaukee at another inflection point?
49:00: Regional transportation and the spatial mismatch of jobs in the Milwaukee metro area
56:00: How this generation of philanthropists in Milwaukee’s business community needs to step up
1:00:00: On Milwaukee’s newest music venue, Landmark Credit Union Live
1:05:00: On Ticketmaster and forming NIVA
The Recombobulation Area is a 19-time Milwaukee Press Club award-winning opinion column and online publication founded by longtime Milwaukee journalist Dan Shafer. The Recombobulation Area is now part of Civic Media.
Video filmed by Max Martinson. Editing and additional production by Jennie Brand.
Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he and the publication joined Civic Media, where he is currently a Contributing Editor. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.
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Follow Dan Shafer on Twitter at @DanRShafer and at BlueSky at @danshafer.bsky.social.
